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BUDDHISM
> TEACHINGS: Reflections with VEN. SANGYE KHADRO
 Ven
Sangye Khadro, also known as Kathleen McDonald, is the author of the
popular book, “How to Meditate”. She stayed at Tushita for
six months to do retreat and gave teachings. Gregg Ruskusky talked to
her about her 25 years of being ordained…
Gregg: Can you tell us a little bit about your history with the Dharma?
Ven Sangye Khadro: I came into contact with Dharma here in Dharamasala in 1973, and started going to classes at the Library.
G: Who was teaching then?
VSK: Geshe Ngawang
Dhargyey. He was my first teacher, I took refuge with him. I was living
down at the Library and a friend brought me up to Tushita. There was an
English nun, Suzanne, staying here at that time. She was very friendly
and helpful, and I used to come up almost every day to talk to her
because I didn’t understand a lot of things that I was learning
at the Library. At that time, the number of western Sangha was very
very small. Then Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa came to Tushita for about a
week and Suzanne arranged for me to meet them. They were going off to
Kopan to teach the November Course. That was in 1973. Some people were
encouraging me to go but I liked the classes at the Library, so I
stayed. And then everybody was going to the Kalachakra in Bodhgaya. I
had to leave India because my visa had run out, so I decided to go to
Nepal. I went to the Kalachakra Initiation in Bodhgaya on my way to
Nepal. That was January ‘74, a big Kalachakra Initiation and no
translation! In those days, those sort of facilities weren’t
available, although I was sitting next to Alex Berzin and occasionally
he would tell us what was going on, which was helpful. But still it was
a very powerful experience. Then I went to Kopan and did a course in
spring ‘74 and after that I became ordained.
G: What kind of reaction did you get from your family?
VSK: Well, I had to
get permission from my parents to get ordained. Lama Yeshe said that
was necessary. So I wrote home and my parents said it’s okay with
them. Their only concern was that I was doing something that was good
and that would made me happy. When I finally went home, they were
really open-minded. They are Catholics and they really appreciated what
I was doing. In fact, they have been very supportive, very encouraging.
They met Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa in California in 1977, they really
liked Lama.
G: When did you start teaching?
VSK: Well, I never
really thought of being a teacher, I wanted to meditate, and I was
always very shy. But while there was a community of us living at Kopan,
Lama Yeshe had all of us do, what he called a public examination,
horrible name! Each of us had to take a turn to give a talk about a
Dharma subject. We could choose the subject but we had to give the talk
in the gompa in Kopan, in front of Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa and anyone
else who wanted to come. So it was often quite a big group of people.
It was a terrible experience for me. I mean it was hard enough giving a
talk in front of ordinary people but with your teachers, Lama Yeshe and
Lama Zopa, sitting there! That was probably my first experience of
giving a Dharma talk. I didn’t give much teachings until I went
back to the west. I went back to America and lived there for about a
year and a half. Then after that I went to Manjushri Institute in
England to do the Geshe Studies Programme and I spent three years
there. That was where I started to teach in a more regular way.
G: So that was in...
VSK: Between 1979 and 1981
G: So when you
think about the students that you were teaching then and the students
you are in contact with now, do you see a lot of changes?
VSK: Well, I think
in the early days, most of the people coming here to the east studying
the Dharma were hippies! So the general Dharma person in those days was
young, in their twenties, didn’t have any money or children.
Whereas now, we find people of all different ages. The last ten years I
have been in Singapore, I have more experience teaching Chinese
Singaporeans and not so much experience teaching westerners. But when I
do come to Dharamsala or Nepal, I’m struck by the variety of age
groups, professions and so on. I mean there is still the hippy type but
there are also professional people ? doctors, lawyers, teachers,
professors and people with plenty of money.
G: How about the people’s approach to the Dharma?
VSK: That’s
another thing because in those days with the hippy type of person,
there was more of a tendency to just give everything to the Dharma,
either become ordained or just give your life to your teacher. Those
who didn’t become ordained would often pretty much make Dharma
the main focus of their life. Now maybe not so many people are doing
that. Perhaps because of the economic situation, people are more
concerned about their jobs or their family. I’m not really sure
what the difference is.
G: How do you deal
with westerners coming from a culture with a lot of challenging
questions and doubt and not a lot of faith? How do you advise them on
their difficulties with the family, for instance?
VSK: It’s
really difficult. I came from the same background, I have the same
problems ? problems with my parents and the emotional issues. I guess I
feel at this point in time, after twenty-five years of practice, a lot
of these issues have settled down, definitely through the benefit of
the Dharma, the teachers and so forth. So for me those sort of things
aren’t big issues anymore. And these are the things I love to
talk about, methods of dealing with emotions, anger, attachment and so
forth. When somebody comes to me and talks about problems relating to
anger or attachment, I can explain to them different methods, different
techniques, but I can’t be sure whether they are really going to
go off using these techniques. And even if they do, it’s going to
take time, it takes years to really work on some of these emotional
issues and get to where your mind doesn’t feel so tense and upset
with them.
G: So for instance
with anger, the one which seems to come up a lot, what do you recommend
people to do, knowing that they are obscured by anger, that it comes up
and they really feel so strongly in the midst of it, and they feel
helpless and lost?
VSK: Well, again
what’s been helpful for me is learning the Dharma and finding the
Dharma methods ? meditation methods or analytical meditation ? to look
at the anger that is there in the mind. But for me, it has taken many
many years. Different things will work for different people, so
it’s good to learn different techniques. And also the
relationship with the teacher or teachers; it’s very important to
have examples of people who have subdued their own minds and are
genuinely patient, kind and loving and so on, it’s very important
to have that contact. The whole thing, Buddhadharma, is having the
teacher, the knowledge, the methods, and practising them. And also
having Dharma friends. The combination of all these factors is very
important. And then patience, because I think many western people have
the problem of being impatient with themselves, wanting to be a certain
way and getting frustrated and upset because they can’t. I have
met a lot of people who have the problem of being angry at themselves
or self-hatred, that seems to be a pretty common problem amongst
westerners.
G: So one last
question for you. What kind of advice would you give to me or to
anybody who wants to maintain a regular meditation practice, how to go
about it so that somehow we can still maintain this consistency.
VSK: I remember a
few years ago when I was in North Carolina teaching at Kadampa Centre,
one activity that we found interesting was to have a pot-luck dinner
which was very informal and to have discussion around a Dharma issue.
One evening, there was a topic of discussion on how to establish a
daily meditation practice and many of the people spoke about having
many difficulties. Somehow it has never been a problem for me, partly
because early on in my career in the Dharma, I took initiations and I
take my commitments very seriously. Maybe some people don’t. I
feel when I take on a commitment to do a practice, I really have to do
it and really awful if I don’t. So that can be very helpful, to
make a commitment to do some practice everyday. And when you can take
it seriously, when you can make a promise to the person you respect,
like His Holiness the Dalai Lama or Lama Zopa Rinpoche, one of your
gurus, to do a practice everyday, that’s something that will keep
you to it. Even if you do it quickly and maybe not very mindfully, but
at least you do it everyday and you build up a habit to do that. And
then again, the importance of contact with other practitioners, if
possible, meet with them and practise together, because when you are by
yourself, it’s much harder to have the energy and the motivation.
Maybe your lifestyle is set up in such a way that it’s very easy
to get busy and not find time to meditate. So if you can establish a
practice with other people, maybe once a week, that can be sort of
energising and an inspiration.
G: It seems like
it’s so easy to get caught up in the busy-ness with so many
things to do these days, it’s always later, later, later...
VSK: Well
that’s why it’s good if you can make it a point to do it
first thing in the morning, otherwise once you start doing things, then
pretty soon it’s time to go to bed and you don’t have much
energy left. So I think it’s really important to set up a
schedule in such a way, get up at a certain time and have at least
five, ten, fifteen minutes to do some prayers or meditation, some kind
of practice before you start doing other things.
G: Wonderful, thank you very much for your time.
MAY ALL BEINGS BE HAPPY!
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